Wednesday, January 14, 2009

Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

It seems like I keep reading about fruits and vines lately so I thought I would post something that came to my mind this morning. I think everyone knows the phrase, “by their fruits you will know them”. It is a very common phrase in the LDS church and other religious circles. It is something that is used in both a positive and a negative context and can often be self serving as I'm sure some will say that about what I am going to say.

While reading the following passage I had a moment of clarity which is happening more often.

Matthew 7:15-20

15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

17Likewise EVERY good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree CANNOT bear bad fruit, and a bad tree CANNOT bear good fruit.

19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

I’d like to focus some attention on verses 17 and 18. I added some emphasis to highlight some key words. If we are to believe these verses, then I think all would agree on the basic premise that good tree = good fruit and bad tree = bad fruit.

The question I had was; where does the tree get its nourishment? The food it eats is in the soil where it is planted and the roots are what not only anchors the tree but feeds it. Following basic logic, if the food in the soil is not good or sufficient then the tree will be weak and lacking in the ability to produce fruit at all since all of its energy must be spent in just staying alive. If the roots stay at the surface and do not go deep into the soil then it will be vulnerable when droughts, storms and other problems come, which is inevitable.

Understanding this we can also conclude that…

Good food+deep roots = strong tree & good fruit
Bad food+shallow roots = weak tree & bad fruit or no fruit at all

Why am I taking my time to explain this? Because I think it has a direct relationship to Mormonism. I don’t think it is a coincidence that Jesus, in the same breath, warns us about false prophets and then tells us how to discern who they are. I have spent almost a year now talking about the Mormon tree’s roots, what it eats, and the fruit it ultimately bears. I have had people ask me in the past, and I think I even blogged about it once, what were some good things in the LDS church? I used to try to find a few “good fruits” but have come to understand that it is incapable of bringing forth good fruits because the food it eats (doctrine, teachings and rituals) contain poison that cripples it. It is further damaged by its roots (history) that are rotten and now only remain on the surface to try to survive.

Again talking about fruit, Matthew 12:33-37 says:

33"Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit.

34You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.

35The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him.

36But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."

I know that Mormons look to their leaders, past as present, with adoration and honor but this can only be because they do not know what their past really looked like and who these men were and are still today. It is my hope that some will be filled with enough curiosity to look for themselves at what their church is really founded on and what kind of soil they are taking their “nourishment” from.

“Out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks”. I can only imagine how black and diseased the hearts of the LDS prophets are to have started and now continue a church founded on false doctrine and deceit. One day, those who aided in the proliferation of the Mormon church will have to give an account of the things they said and did. This blog is my attempt to undo the part I played in "spreading the gospel" so I will not be condemned by my words while I was LDS.

I cannot say enough how glad I am to be free from that toxic religion. While my tree is not yet fully healed from years of malnourishment, it is starting to become stronger and the roots are searching deeper into rich soil to find living water.


  1. Everstrivin,

    This is annoying to me. I am LDS and I fail to see how you could think that the church has never withstood any mighty winds of adversity for which strong roots are required. I also fail to see how you cannot see any good fruits in the church. Would you say that the worldwide welfare and humanitarian services are bad? Could you possibly say that encouragement of strong families and the resultant lower rates of divorce are bad? Is it even possible that you could think that the strong push for all members to serve in their communities and the success of the churches mobilizing organization is bad? In my opinion if you can find no good fruits your eyes are as closed as they can get. Do you really think that there could exist among men an organization that produces no "bad apples"? You can think to yourself all you want that Joseph Smith was a false prophet because he gave us extra-biblical doctrines, but if you think that the "rituals" are poison it's only because you cannot see back through history properly. Are the rituals demonic in origin or has the devil, as he does with every good thing, demonized the "rituals"? Let me just end with this,
    Moro. 7: 14-16
    14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.
    15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
    16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.

    The testimony of Joseph Smith combined with the powerful witness of the Holy Spirit do in fact persuade people to believe in Christ. If you have any love for the teachings of the Bible the following scripture should tell you that the above scripture is true.

    John 14: 6
    6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Be careful and repent.

  2. Soy Yo,

    Your posts just get better and better. I can tell you are drinking from the source of Living Water. May God use you to advance His kingdom by "casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God" (II Cor. 10:5).

    Looking forward to more great posts!

  3. Everstrivn,

    Do you realize that you just claimed to be a storm for the LDS church? Do you really think that you will bring down the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? According to you "a storm is relative", are you therefore claiming that the Church has not withstood any "real" storms yet? May I then recall your memory to the pioneers? The sufferings of the early Church I submit to be "real" storms. I also submit the more recent storm over Proposition 8 in California to be a "real" storm. No I haven't seen many converts and I don't know what the retention rates are where I live. I live in a student ward with a great deal of turn over. I submit however that my father was a convert and now I am glad to be a part of a growing LDS tradition in my family (i.e. good retention). It is sad to me that the devil has such a hold on the hearts of men. I submit also that of all the Christian religions at least we are adding to our numbers.
    In your original blog you quoted that "a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit" now you are wanting to define how much good is required before it is considered a good fruit? Do you know that Target supports frivolous abortion?
    As far as your family, I have to say that I have experienced difficulties with some of my own family members (who have since come back). In my experience it was so hard to deal with the choices made that I couldn't talk for fear of offending. You must be able to remember that the church does not teach ostracism. We resort to quite disagreement out of love.
    I must admit that I was surprised to see the dirt you have pulled up about the "true" Mormon divorce rate. The fact still remains that I have to prepare my children to handle the inevitable discussions about why they are the only ones with only one set of parents. If what you claim is true and Mormons are no different then the rest of people at this time, then I must say I'm not surprised. In my experience most people don't try too hard to live what they are taught, and why would Mormons be any different, for that matter, why would members of whatever group you think are living correctly be different? Just because people know what is right does not automatically mean they will live it.
    It is interesting that you are saying that Christ was opposed to rituals, is baptism not a ritual? How about the sacrament(or communion)? Perhaps he wasn't so opposed to rituals after all? I think you may have missed the point Jesus was making.
    As far as my closing statement goes, I think you know enough about LDS doctrine to know that you will be judged by your works. When I say be careful, I just mean that you should watch how low you set your sites, because you will get what you are hoping for (maybe a bit more due to the grace of Christ).
    I know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the same organization that Christ set up originally and that the devil had actually removed plain and simple truths requiring a full restoration where the truths were not figured out by man but handed directly from the mouth and hands of God to man.

    Thanks for the discussion.

  4. Googy,

    First, who is this “Everstrivn” you keep addressing your comments to? I refer to myself as Soy Yo. If you came to this blog by accident that is ok with me. I just want you to know that you are addressing the wrong person.

    I am but a very small part of the virtual storm the LDS church faces today. I alone will not cause the collapse but together, we are making more of an impact then the church is willing to admit. Mormonism is “surviving” and it is my assumption that it will always have some members that will stand by it but the current signs point to stagnant growth. Church offices are being closed and consolidated in Europe. Baptisms are down, retention down, and activity rate down. At the same time, the number of “cafeteria Mormons” is up, resignations are up, and the amount of information available with a few clicks of the mouse is like never before, showcasing inconsistencies from your own church publications. Every day, more non-Mormons are being exposed to this information and they, being able to see from an outsider’s point of view, see how obviously wrong LDS teachings are.

    I only mentioned Target to show you that the Mormon contributions of humanitarian aid is not as spectacular as you are led to believe. I hate to break it to you but the LDS church also approves of abortions. says that Abortion is wrong and this it is murder but then, in the very next paragraph they say…

    “Church leaders have said that some exceptional circumstances may justify an abortion, such as when pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, when the life or health of the mother is judged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy, or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. But even these circumstances do not automatically justify an abortion. Those who face such circumstances should consider abortion only after consulting with their local Church leaders and receiving a confirmation through earnest prayer.”

    So, which is it? Is abortion murder or not? Is murder ok because of rape? Does one wrong justify another? Do birth defects really justify murdering a child? Is the rationalization for abortion/murder that it is ok if you get the “warm fuzzy” feeling that God approves? I think that it is either right or wrong.

    The basis for my comment about rituals stems from the fact that Christ constantly rebuked those who focused too much on the law. This is the point in which we come to a very fundamental difference in beliefs. Mormons believe that baptism and other ordinances are essential for salvation. Now, some Christian denominations believe that as well but there are many that don’t. Again, that is a topic for another post to be able to cover it appropriately. I have seen enough justification (for lack of a better word) in the Bible to see how baptism and communion may be something believers do but that they are not a requirement for salvation.

    I do know enough about the LDS teachings to know that YOU believe that YOU will be judged by your works but Jesus and the Bible teach salvation by grace not works. Keep reading because I will cover that topic in a post soon and perhaps it will open your eyes to the Bible that you have been missing all these years. I personally have only recently seen how much was never covered by the lesson manuals put out by the church.

    I respect your right to testify or your beliefs but be careful how you use the word “know”. It is a very certain word that does not allow for any doubt or gray area. Only basing knowledge on feelings and “warm fuzzys” can lead you down a path that you might not want to travel.

    Soy Yo

  5. I forgot to address your following comment…

    “The fact still remains that I have to prepare my children to handle the inevitable discussions about why they are the only ones with only one set of parents.”

    Are you really self righteous enough to believe that there are no moral standards outside of the Mormon church? Are you that naive to believe nothing can even compare to the glorious standards of Latter Day Saints? If you do, I feel sorry for you because you obviously have seen and experienced little of the world.

    I believe that divorce is a very real problem today that hurts everyone involved and I know from personal experience. My parents, both of which are recommend holding Mormons, have been married more then once in the temple and had 2 divorces each.

    There are so many people OUTSIDE of the Mormon church who also value marriage and family. There is not a LDS monopoly on those ideals. I assure you that when your children are growing up, they will not be the only ones with one set of parents. Many of their non-LDS friends will have wonderful examples of parents that love each other and take their commitments very seriously.

  6. A person is saved by trusting Christ as their savior, period. Any organization that requires baptism or anything else to be saved is a cult. Mormonism is a cult for many many reasons, but this reason is more than enough.

    Of course the Christ they must believe in is the Christ of the Bible. The "Christ" of mormonism is a fiction and has no power to save anyone.

  7. i have to thank you guys. sometimes when i am bored or down..i come on here to rejoice in the pure arrogance, hypocrisy, double standard and pure stupidity. soy yo is wonderful as well. pure greatness. temple poceedings, temple names, church history, doctrine, and now fruits? the lds church has no good fruits? i love it. keep it up man...i remember when i was in chile, and there was this drunk guy and we were standing on the hill. there was a dirt road where we were standing talking to..rather listening to him and embedded in the dirt road were two tire tracks made of cement for the one guy that owned a car on the hill. well the guy was driving down the hill on his cement tracks and the drunk guy had his left foot planted on one of the cement trails and he refused to move his foot. the guy honked..asked him to move ..but the fellow refused to move his foot. so the fellow in the car ran it over. and broke it...first thing i said after laughing uncontrollably was "you showed him" well you keepon doug and soy keep on showing the lds church and us dumbass mormons how wrong, silly and brainwashed we are....and ill keep laughing at you and driving over your stubborn foot on my way to living life.


  8. Nice analogy markus, but I don't think you get it. You are the one with the foot being ran over. Only your foot is being run over and over because you prefer that, to taking a good hard look at the church. Soy Yo has been were you are. So have I. I probably have more years invested in the Mormon church than you do. All I can say is, when presented with the facts, I chose not to keep making excuses for the church. I personally don't care if you go or not, but I am tired of Mormons asking me why certain disturbing things about the church bother me. If they don't bother you, fine, keep going. They bother me and they should bother most conscious, rational people. Free at last. Thank God, free at last!!!!

    Googy, and marcus, keep coming to this site. You might learn something. And by all means, feel free to pray about it.

  9. Mark,
    Don’t reflect your own personal self image on me by putting words into my mouth. I never called you or anyone else a “dumbass Mormon”. Those are YOUR words, not mine.

    I will keep writing as I see fit and I have a backlog of topics to address so I imagine this blog will be up and running for years to come.

    I will say to you the same thing I have said to every other Mormon that has an issue with the information here. You have 3 choices.

    1. Keep reading, checking my sources, and probably learn something new about the religion you prescribe to.

    2. Show me with verifiable sources where I am wrong. Be specific, and do not use the “burning in my bosom” as a factual response.

    3. Put your hands over your eyes, pretend you did not see anything here and never come back.

    I’d prefer you do either 1 or 2 but the choice is yours. I force no one to come here.

    I have had this blog for 1 year now and I have yet to have anyone take my up on option number 2. Will you be the first?

    Oh, and as for your little story…

    I’d much rather have my foot ran over then my mind.

  10. k*tty... no my foot isnt being run over, nor is my mind. only 3 option mr. yo? nah ill keep reading just for the comedy you morons provide. the best part is how you feel somehow enlightened by regurgitating shit you read or found from other ass before you...its nothing new. you can take any faith..any religion and tear it apart with logic can find questionable history and facts about church leaders that are more than disturbing...every the interest of should proclaim your new faith...both of you. i would hope you are both agnostic or atheist or else the hypocrisy is reaaaally deep in here. as far as your brilliant and enlightened i said have no new information to provide..other than your temple name....i know all of it and more. at the end of the day though..i dont see how being lds takes me further away from diety? what am i missing out on ? some te..cigarettes? ill be alright man. im good. in the meantime i will continue to visit your blog when i need a laugh or to feel better about myself. godspeed...
    hope all is well and that you find what you are looking for. anxious for full disclosure on your respective religious beliefs / faith or lack there of....

  11. Mark,
    I’d like to congratulate you for proving the point of this blog post. You should read your most recent comment again and then apply the words you so eloquently chose to Matthew 12:34-37.

    I personally do not appreciate the use of some of the words you chose to use so I thought I would take this opportunity to give you some insight into what your leaders teach about the use of profanity.

    "Profanity does no good, only harm... People may endure profanity, but they are seldom impressed, and they usually have less respect for the profaner."
    (Robert K. Dellenbach, “Profanity,” New Era, May 1992, 46)

    "Some guys do not show respect for the priesthood because they use profanity; some are involved in pornography; and a few are into drugs.” I’m certain, my young brethren, that you’ll agree that profanity, pornography, and drugs should not be a part of the life of a priesthood holder…Profanity and priesthood are not compatible."
    (H. David Burton, “Honoring the Priesthood,” Ensign, May 2000, 38)

    Perhaps you should think about that.

    I believe you are right that every religion has a past. Sure, we all know about the crusades and other horrible things done in the name of religion and I think most would agree that it was not right and that it does not represent what Christ taught. What sets Mormonism apart from the rest is how they try to run and hide from their past by changing their own history books and teachings to the point where only the “faith promoting” stories are shared and over time the ugly parts are hopefully forgotten. I think you should have a higher standard of truthfulness from “God’s one and only true church”.

    Do you have any specific points to refute? I am serious when I say that I would love for you or anyone else to read through ALL of the posts here, check the sources (most of which are your own manuals and history books), and then show me where I am wrong. When you find something, feel free to email me.

    You are like the 5th Mormon in the past few months to state that the only thing you are missing out on is alcohol, coffee, tea and cigarettes. Surely you believe that there are larger things that set your church apart from the rest. Personally, I am actually sipping on a cup of coffee as I type this comment and I must say that you are missing out.

    As for my religious circumstance, I am a former Mormon trying to sort through all of the non-Biblical teachings of my former faith and am working towards a new understanding of who Jesus Christ really was and what that means for me in my life. It is a process that I have only just begun but I hope it will bring me the peace Mormonism never could.

    Now let’s see if we can all be big boys and girls and clean up our language for future comments.

  12. have so enlightened me. we cant cuss? damn those j. golden kimball tapes. crud. flip. are you implying i am addicted to porn? thats wierd...i remember how this balding dude with frames was offended when most mormons attributed his falling away from the church to sin...a common correlation but not always accurate in the mormon religion. i could have written your reply for you...just like a puppet...the hypocrisy is again humorous.... i have known many great, chaste, benevolent men filled with integrity and charity that cursed.
    what else am i missing out on oh enlighted and superior intelligent regurgitator of "information"..??
    now you take issue with church history and your perception that the church attempts to hide the "truth" and theninvite me to challenge your idiotology or "knowledge" claiming that almost all of your revealing and enlightened truths have been found in the church's own history books? right........
    you just keep that foot firmly planted in the road hero. sip your cafe...enjoy your search.
    hopefully one day you will be able to let go of your anger / hate / resentment or whatever it is you feel and focus on living your life and be happy...establish a relationship with your family..i.e. sarah.

    godspeed sir. proceed with your plagiarism and regurgitate more ....stuff. i think thomas and the boys are realllllly worried about your efforts. beware the black helicopters. i will write him and see if he will be willing to make peace with you and your hamas-like agenda.

  13. Soy Yo, people like Mark are why I have comment moderation on my blogs...


    "I know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the same organization that Christ set up originally "

    Can you show me where Christ ever ordained a human to hold the Aaronic or Melchizidek priesthood in the Bible? Christ sent His followers out to preach the Gospel, not to establish an authoritarian hierarchical organization, to build "temples", to profane the name of God with false doctrines. The church is not an organization, it is the people of God.

  14. Sido,
    I like to let them speak their mind because I think it gives those who are questioning Mormonism a chance see what the members are really like. As it is with pointing out the issues with the LDS church, it is easier and better to let their own words speak for themselves. I will admit that I came close to deleting the comment laced with profanity but like I said, he just proved the very point I was trying to make.

    I never implied that you are addicted to porn just like I never called you a “dumbass Mormon”. Keep putting words in my mouth and someone is going to think you have a guilty conscience. I merely quoted a Ensign from 2000. In order to quote accurately, the entire sentence had to be included. I like to put things in context instead of taking random statements and verses and making them say what I want them to. It was H. David Burton who grouped those two things together not me. Perhaps he feels there is a correlation.

    Have you taken a moment to actually look at the sources I use? A large portion of them are older, out of print, history books and manuals that have since been changed in the newer versions to omit points of history that would be potentially embarrassing. If you want to blame someone for that, then you need to take it up with Gordon B. Hinckley who himself, on many occasions, blatantly lied on television interviews about core doctrines of the LDS church like the belief that God was once a man like us who was then exalted and now we can become a god in the same way He did.

    The LDS church teaches about sins of commission and sins of omission. Omitting certain information in new manuals and church publications can be just as sinful as teaching false doctrine if it hides or distorts the truth.

    Funny you bring up my sister. Let me give you some insight on what happened the last time I spoke to her on Christmas night. When I got on the phone with her, after she began to rip into my wife, I think I was able to say maybe 15 words max and those words were, “Sarah, calm down and stop shouting. Sarah, lower your voice and let me say something.” She never stopped yelling and then handed the phone over to John, who is probably your roll model for how to communicate with others, and he just picked up where she left off. And in true John-like fashion, he said, “If you ever contact us or come near us again, I will personally kick your ass.” (see H. David Burton’s quote in the comment above)

    Who severed the relationship? They did and personally, I have no problem with that. I knew the day I decided to leave the Mormon church that they would eventually choose to distance themselves and their family from me. Anyone who knows Sarah and John would not be surprised by that choice. I am at peace with that and don’t see it as much of a loss.

    Genesis 2:24
    Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

    I have a wife and daughter who constitute as my family now and they take precedence over any parents or siblings. It is their relationship with me that I care about and choose to nurture.

    My quality of life has improved leaps and bounds in the past year and I equate that to my leaving the LDS church. I am no longer held down by the law they teach. I see that there is so much more out there for me then what Mormonism could offer and I’m going after it.

    I am use to ad hominem attacks by now but I must say that I have never been compared to a terrorist organization. I’ll add that to the list.

    PS. Capitalization is your friend. Don’t be afraid to use it.

  15. jon is my role model? no sir..a vegetarian cannot be my role model. i have had many disagreements with the hales...closet libtards..great people but liberals and thus not capable of being my role models.. from illegal aliens,,to gun control..and the list goes on..... capitalization is my friend? bro..i am typing this on my cell phone so capitalization is your friend.. i could not care less about that.
    sido....i doubt anyone cares about your blog enough for you to bother censoring comments. heck the only reason i entertain myself with doug and his blatant hypocrisy is because i know his wife and family. oh and if you wish to engage...state your faith..dont come to the game and hide your it. level playing field.

    doug...your sources? bro all you do is regurgitate the same garbage you find on other websites.,, lifeafter, god and science, i bet you use, offer nothing provide no brilliance or enlightenment. you pretend yourself to be intelligent and aware but you arent. you are just doug. plain old doug. no original thought just borrowed concepts and "facts" in your effort to justify your search and resolve your confusion. you lash out at the mormons for the "hurt" the church inflicted on you in your youth. you have a new belief system..and hopefully one day your superior intellect will settle on 1 i believe you are on to your 2nd church since leaving the mormons?...and when u settle on something..let me know because no doubt in my mind..we can analyze the history and doctrine of that faith and find faults, contradictions, questionable history and issues..even if you just decide that you believe in the bible -which is full of contradictions...

  16. sido....i doubt anyone cares about your blog enough for you to bother censoring comments. heck the only reason i entertain myself with doug and his blatant hypocrisy is because i know his wife and family. oh and if you wish to engage...state your faith..dont come to the game and hide your it. level playing field.

    Huh? It would help if you used complete sentences in your comments. I am not sure what you mean by hiding my flag, if you want to know where I am come from and what I believe, you only need to follow my blog profile. If that requires too much effort, follow this link...

  17. Ephesians 6:12

    "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."

    God bless you Doug! I would like to say that with everything going on you are not battling with Mark. You know exactly who is waging war against you and the truth you stand for.

  18. Mark,
    I have actually never referenced any of the sites you mention. In fact, out of those sites, the only one I have ever visited is but it is not a source for me. I site the primary source of information after each quote so check it out before you make assumptions about where I get my information from. Arguing that information is not new does not make it any less true.

    You said, “No original thought just borrowed concepts”

    Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Ever been to a fast and testimony meeting? I bet 90% of those who get up parrot the same tired phrases that were given to them from childhood. You know… “I’d like to bear my testimony; I know the church is true, I know that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God…” I can hear the lifeless, monotone voices now. “No original thought just borrowed concepts”.

    One thing Mormons don’t understand is that in the Christian world, it is ok to change churches so the fact that I have been to more then 1 church is not a big deal. All Christian churches teach the same foundational beliefs that are essential for salvation, the other “peripheral beliefs” are what they differ on. Outside of the Mormon bubble, you go where God leads you and where you are fed. You have a choice as to what congregation you want to be a part of. You get to choose who is teaching you so you can get the most out of each sermon. Not all pastors are created equal and their teaching styles are not the same so it only makes sense to find one that teaches in a style that you can relate to. It has been my observation that a good pastor will encourage those listening to him to not take his word for it but to test what he says by comparing it to the Bible.

    1 Thessalonians 5:21-22
    21Test everything. Hold on to the good. 22Avoid every kind of evil.

    Since you do not care to discuss actual points of Mormon history or doctrine, I do not see the need to waste more of my time dealing with you so I will bring this conversation to a close.